Complex rulesets

Hi

Would it be possible to support complex rulesets. By this I mean an OR rule that supports multiple AND conditions (or conceivably, the reverse). At the moment, I am achieving this with carefully positioned and thought out (!) rules.

It's something I'm thinking about though I can't say when it will be done. I need to work out how to present it to the user without confusing users who may not need it. Nonetheless, it is on the feature list.

If there's a particular rule you are having problems with, feel free to post it here.

I would like to see this functionality also. Here is one idea on how to implement it.

1) In the all/any drop down add a 'complex conditions' entry.
2) When this option is selected each rule would be numbered starting at 1
3) A new text entry field would be added below the if's and above the do's that would allow and entry like 1+2&3 (it can default to the any (+) or all (&) that was previously entered.

I have used this with other products and it works well as it hides the complexity unless the person requires it.

David

Just to give you guys an update. I'm looking into adding this into 1.2. The way I am thinking of it now is slightly hidden but has the benefit of not confusing novice users (but still be easy to use for power users).

I'll post more details as I get further along with it but let me know if you have any special requests in this regard.

I would like to add my vote for something like this as well. It would be nice to have a more complex "if, then, and, or" type thing, to really get some powerful actions without having to get into adding 20 rules to a folder.

It's definitely under consideration but let's just say I am waiting for some certain standard behavior to be finalized in a certain future os release...

For now, you may be able to simplify your rules by taking advantage of the "Ignore file" action. A lot of the rules I've seen from users seem to have redundant conditions that one rule near the beginning can fix. If you don't want certain files to apply to any subsequent rules, filter them with one rule matching them and saying "Ignore". Remember, once a file is handled by a rule, it won't be seen by the subsequent ones.

It's not a substitute for nesting/grouping of conditions but there's definitely room for tightening things up within the current system.

Hey, I was just curious what's been happening on the homefront for Hazel - especially since Leopard is out now.

Any updates or news on upcoming stuff?

Thanks again!

I'm looking into what to put into 2.2 right now though nothing is definite. With the holidays and all, thing probably won't be worked out until the new year.

As for this particular feature, Leopard does provide a widget for rule editing which provides for doing ANDs and ORs or sub-expressions. The problem here is that it is Leopard-only. I don't think this is the type of thing I can easily maintain separate Tiger/Leopard implementations so I will probably end up implementing it myself on Tiger to resemble the Leopard functionality. No time frame yet but it's on the list.

Ah cool...

Question: Is there enough of a marketshare for keeping a tiger version and not just taking the app 10.5+ only like many other developers are doing?

Just curious.

It depends. I'm keeping tabs on the stats from the update mechanism. If you look, there's the option to send an anonymous profile when you check for updates. Be sure to enable this to "vote" for your OS version. The information is anonymous and I don't give it out (except in aggregate like "20% of my users have <x>") or do bad things with the data. It's purely for helping me plan out support for different configurations.

Last time I checked, Leopard adoption was much higher than I anticipated. Nonetheless, there are still a significant number of Tiger users and I don't want to abandon them. For now, I'm sticking to Leopard improvements that can be maintained in parallel with Tiger. Most of these are just better/faster/more reliable mechanisms for functionality that's already in place. For instance, Automator should work a bit better in Leopard. Flow doesn't return back to Hazel until after the workflow is done which allows you to have subsequent actions in the same rule know that the workflow has completed (in Tiger, this was not the case).

Some other devs are doing 10.5-only versions but very few of them are out yet. Each developer has their own reasons for doing this. For instance, I believe TextMate will be 10.5 only in its next version. Being that most of its users are developers or other technical users, it makes sense as they tend to be early adopters and stay up to date on the latest. For now, I'm straddling both. Eventually Hazel will switch over but there's still a stuff I can get in now for both OS versions and that's where the focus is now.

It depends. I'm keeping tabs on the stats from the update mechanism. If you look, there's the option to send an anonymous profile when you check for updates. Be sure to enable this to "vote" for your OS version. The information is anonymous and I don't give it out (except in aggregate like "20% of my users have <x>") or do bad things with the data. It's purely for helping me plan out support for different configurations.

Last time I checked, Leopard adoption was much higher than I anticipated. Nonetheless, there are still a significant number of Tiger users and I don't want to abandon them. For now, I'm sticking to Leopard improvements that can be maintained in parallel with Tiger. Most of these are just better/faster/more reliable mechanisms for functionality that's already in place. For instance, Automator should work a bit better in Leopard. Flow doesn't return back to Hazel until after the workflow is done which allows you to have subsequent actions in the same rule know that the workflow has completed (in Tiger, this was not the case).

Some other devs are doing 10.5-only versions but very few of them are out yet. Each developer has their own reasons for doing this. For instance, I believe TextMate will be 10.5 only in its next version. Being that most of its users are developers or other technical users, it makes sense as they tend to be early adopters and stay up to date on the latest. For now, I'm straddling both. Eventually Hazel will switch over but there's still a stuff I can get in now for both OS versions and that's where the focus is now.

Fair enough... I can relate to that. I do think that Hazel is more geared to advanced users, simply because the people who use it are generally the type to "tinker" or are involved in managing large file bases and who want automation. This is not a knock on your software at all - as Hazel is so easy it can be used by my parents (well, maybe).

I have checked voting process as you described. I'm all for giving you whatever feedback that I can.

And, I am not trying to say that I am unhappy with Hazel in the slightest - just sort of thinking out loud here and since you seem to be very open about things I thought I would ask. :wink:

Thanks for checking the system profile stuff. I know for some people it seems scary because info is being sent but it's pretty generic info and anonymous and it is the best way for me to ascertain what my users are actually using.

But back to the original post, it will go in in some form. Switching to being Leopard-only is the "easier" way of getting this functionality but I may end up just doing something equivalent myself that is Tiger-compatible as well.

And if you aren't sure what I'm talking about, on Leopard, create a smart folder. Hit the plus button to add a new line. Then hold down the option key. The plus button should turn into ellipses (...). Clicking that will create a sub-expression.

Something weird.. The checkbox for including system info doesn't seem to stick. I check it and either move to another section of the hazel prefs or even close the system prefs window, the checkbox becomes unchecked the next time I open the hazel prefs window.

Is this by design or a bug?

That's not by design. The setting should stick. One thing to check is if the helper app is running (look for HazelHelper in Activity Monitor). If not, quit System Preferences, and start it up again and click on Hazel.

If you are still seeing problems, let me know and we'll dig deeper.